Do women find male genitals a turn on or turn-off? (Genitals she doesn't already 'know' that is)

[LOUANN BRIZENDINE]

What's up with this?

[LOUANN BRIZENDINE]

Is rampant sexuality something men are supposed to grow out of? According to historian Sara Lipton, sexual restraint rather than sexual prowess was once the measure of a man. (And it was women who were sexually seductive so that men had to guard against them.) A man in that era would be thought less-of-a-man if he showed his genitals off to a female.

[Joel Slater]

I can tell you that at my age I am much less horney than I was when I was in my 20's, 30's, 40's or even 50's.       Sexual restraint as male prowess?  I would need to know more why Ms. Lipton thinks so, but I wonder if she is mainly referring to specific classes?  I wonder if sexual restraint was manly, as was capital investment.  In those days, people were suppossed to show consumer restraint and invest back.  In any case, I think a lot of these restraining prowess gentlemen-were visiting prostitutes, or had a lot mistresses.  In short-not convinced of Ms. Lipton's thesis.

[angel macedon]

Since , according to mainstream culture, white middle class/ upper rmiddle class women, seldom , if ever, have  wanton, lustful desires of raw monkey love, unless of course, it is with their partner or husband, who are all of these wild oversexed men having sex with, Madonna? if one but googles wifeswapping, cuckolding, MILF, hotwife or navigates the myriad sexual sites on Yahoo, Tribe Net, Msnbc, you will find that under the cover of public sexual piety, women are doing much more sexually than these suspect statistics would suggest. When Amy writes, that women ( she dosen't say which women) require subltey, romance, beauty and brain tickles as a precursor to sex, she forgot to mention money, status and  power as well. No surprise there since women are loathe to be honest about their infidelities and lusts. She also neglects to mention context. Typically , the man a woman wants to jump thru all of the hoops before having sex with him is the man she wants for more than sex; she wants a relationship. So the jumping thru the hoops serves several other purposes rather than simple foreplay. A man that stays and jumps through the hoops is more likely to deal with her and her many difficult, contradictory, frustrating behaviour that is sure to come. I truly think that if it wasn't for sex men would spend very little time with women. Also, if in fact women only have sex or are interested in having sex when properly tickled, how do you explain groupies, or women who throw their panties in stage at performers, politicians, actors, athletes and so on?   i once dated a woman, for far too long, who liked to brag about how many men she and her freinds had sex with.  Most of this happened in the seventies while she was in  in college, when according to her, sex parties were common. Mind you all of this sex was taking place while women were also complaining that sexism was prevented women from having the same sexual opportunities as men. When i asked her why she did it  she said because everyone else was doing it. I mean why take responsiblitiy if you don't have to. Much the same is going on at college campuses today, with this one difference,  having a lesbian experience as been added to the sexual mix. Women are having wanton sex without foreplay, romance or tickling it's just not with The guy. THE guy has a different set of priorities and expectations associated with him and sex placed on him by THE woman. i personally have had female friends of girlfriends, wives of friends, female cousins of women i was dating, all approach me in clandestine ways for sex, no foreplay, no romance no tickling required. But of course none of this happened since women don't behave that way. Finally , if as it is being argued that women only have sex when romanced, how and why did people have sex before the invention of romance? This would completetly contradicts our prime directive as humans , which is to pass on our genes. This prime directive is far more encompassing and powerful than make believe, transeint constructions like romance and foreplay.  For me, i'd much rather be the guy someone's wife or partner is throwing her panties to on stage than the guy at home who will eventually be required to jump thru a plethora of emotional and psychological hoops and even theraphy to do what comes natural.

[Elfriede Ammann]

@angel macedon

you place yourself in the stage 1 category of guys -- they are stuck in the 50ties (and the very very big majority).

who are they? Male chauvinists (killer males) ogling for submissive girly girls.
see  Three styles of relationship and intimacy – David Deida

http://de.spiritualwiki.org/Wiki/Beziehungsebenen#toc27

[Amy Nguyen]

Angel, I was addressing the original issue of attraction. My point is very much that context determines the status of male genitals in a woman's eyes. If you are talking about a bunch of sluts that come to an orgy already determined to have sex with everyone there indiscriminately, then sure, it doesn't matter -- or does it? On the one hand, they are already turned on, so any particular penis may not matter. On the other hand, they are already turned on, therefore any penis may be attractive. The women I spoke of are women in my circle, where we need to have an emotional connection to a man and sufficient foreplay before we are ready to have sex, at which point, his parts can be exciting. Even then, it has to be his parts, not just any old penis that's around no matter the size, shape, color, etc. There's not really anything about it on its own that would do it. Even if I am otherwise primed for sex, such as at that particular point in my menstrual cycle where the hormones make me horny, I wouldn't be tempted by a stranger's penis. Yes, women can be just as promiscuous or disloyal as men. The reason they do, though, usually doesn't have to do with somebody whipping out an oh so gorgeous penis that they couldn't help themselves. It is not the same as men ogling a woman's breasts, lips, hips, butt, etc. You would be hard pressed to find women turning their heads in a restaurant when a man walks by with a nice bulge in his pants, while a man may be distracted by a woman's breasts, lips, etc. even in a non-sexual environment. Yet, even men will not necessarily act on such an attraction. Female immorality cannot be determined by male genitalia. A final point: your braggart date speaks of all this experience coming from 70's college sex parties, not ongoing activity. Are you trying to convince us that college boys in the 70's had nicer penises?

[angel macedon]

Dear EA. i JUST REALIZED YOU CALLED ME A MALE CHAUVINIST AND A KILLER MALE! Now that i have composed myself, i'll thank you to be respectful if me and refrain from labeling me a sa killer!? Your atitude is exactly the reason i don't trust feminists or feminism on average. all to often, people like you, because a man stands uo to you, are labeled foul and dispiscable things as a way of discrediting their point of view. All too often feminists have in the past and as you have done now resort to baseless name calling instead of reasoned logical debate to get their point across. I am a single father, who raised  balanced healhy three kids in spite of being isolated and treated like a social pariah by the female community. when i was married. 25 years ago,  i was the primary care giver because i was better suited for it. the truth is women like you are not prepared for real feminist men like me. How dare you!?