Human males and sexual restraint?

[LOUANN BRIZENDINE]

What do you all think? I find it curious that the examples of lack of retraint by powerful men this past week are such a big surprise to anyone. (That doesn't mean they should get away with it or be able to abuse women in this way or that as a society we shouldn't have laws and punishments for those who violate--no matter how powerful)-- but is this really a surprise to anyone?

[Joel Slater]

@Elfriede---I wonder if what you say is true of powerful men-is also not true of not so powerful men.   If men get the chance to rape without consequences they seem to do so rather easily, and I think most men would like it if they could get women swooning to have sex with them. (I think most men are at least a little envious of sports and rock and roll stars-of the male persuassion for their easy access to female genitalia)

[Joel Huber]

It's too bad about Arnold but ya I dont think this really surprised anyone. I dont really know much about the French guy, but with Arnold it just seems to fit. I'm not saying that from a Hater, the guy was one of my Heroes growing up, I mean he's Arnold! But when you grow up and realize the flashiness is pretty immature, you realize maybe Arnold was emotionally stunted by pressure and fame (and possibly his father), which I think occurs with many celebrities and anyone else who aims for Perfection within the eyes of Others. I mean I dont have a study to back that up, but pressure and the confidence of strangers does funny things to people. It reminds me of high school I was a football/baseball player and even received most athletic my senior year and I can remember people just with the impression that your practically Gold and I can remember thinking most of these people don't even know me at all. It seems something happens to people where they think the opposite like, everyone does know me and there right, I am this crazy awesome person that's better than people. Strange... lol.

[LOUANN BRIZENDINE]

Hey Joel, absolutely right--it gets very strange when you are placed on a pedestal by others--and like Arnold you start to believe it and just run with it--for years and years--the guy must be so stunted in his personal growth--guess he has some learnin' to do as we used to say in Kentucky..

[Elfriede Ammann]

men's testosterone levels are 20 times higher than women's on average.
only with men the hypothalamus activation allows for sexual arousal AND aggression at the same time --
given the ethical development is missing / has not grown reliable restraints.

men on top of the ladder tend to have considerably more of it.
men's leadership quality is decisiveness (i.e. aggression / war). -- patriarchal motto: buy, ban, bomb.

women were programmed into mere survival i.e. subjugation (humiliation).
when programmed women meet a male star or an influential man (president / senator)
their testosterone levels tend to jump up immediately (so it has been measured to their own disbelief).
they tend to flirt more with the (achieved / brutal) alpha males than with ordinary men.
in doing so an old old survival program involuntarily kicks in. this program ensures also that the
biggest bully in town will STILL get cheers from the girls and remain "safe" from public
prosecution for his obvious crimes (known to the clique, the subsystem).

D Strauss-Kahn (the former IMF chief) - and along with him practically all non-initiated men of the white male system - have missed out to learn to cry (have compassion) as a youth and to feel powerless and thereby grow synapses in their brain that will disallow dehumanizing abuse. initiation - which is missing - allows men to become socially contributing vessels for real power. if not, they are tempted to apply sheer force in a men's world.

Father Richard Rohr, OFM, is one of the few wise older men. he found:
"Older cultures seemed to assume that unless the male is led on deliberate journeys of powerlessness,
he will normally seek and abuse power."
RR also said: "the young man who cannot cry is a savage, the old man who cannot laugh is a fool."

Berlusconi's last wife Veronica Lario divorced her husband because she could no longer tolerate his philandering with very young women - this was before he was caught in a law suit concerning a minor.
Sinclair, who knows that she has been cheated on, stands by her man. and so did Hillary Clinton.

DSK has married those women who were an asset to his career to reach the top, so did Arnold Schwarzenegger. Anne Sinclair is DSK's third wife. she is an achieved successful society woman herself. when asked if her husband's reputation as the 'great seducer' bothered her, she said: "No, I'm actually rather proud of it! It's important to seduce for a politician. As long as he seduces me and I seduce him, that's good enough for me."
source: Bruce Crumley. "IMF Scandal: The Three Wives of Dominique Strauss-Kahn." Time.com. 5/18/2011
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0%2C8599%2C2072076%2C00.html

due to 5,000 years of patriarchal programming Sinclair is blindly supporting an ugly world mind frame
- the dominance/subjugation system (it has spit her out of her own career).
this system has started to fall from grace with every newly revealed sex domination scandal of prominent men.

Sinclair's husband is not a charming 'seducer'. he is known to all his wives as a cheater, to the media as someone who cannot be left alone with female interviewers, and to all his colleages (at the macho system IMF) for groping and sexual assault on female employees. the alleged rape / abuse of the hotel maid in NYC seems feasible to me.

to be cont.

[Elfriede Ammann]

the Cherokee teach flwg wisdom:

"A woman's highest calling is to lead a man to his soul, so as to unite him with Source;her lowest calling is to seduce, separating man from soul and leave him aimlessly wandering.A man's highest calling is to protect woman, so she is free to walk the earth unharmed.Man's lowest calling is to ambush and force his way into the life of a woman."

the "forcer" DSK and his cheering "seduction advocating" wife A. Sinclair represent each the lowest calling of a man and a woman. both of them are archetypes of a power couple mired in force and seduction.

i suppose that both DSK and his three (former) wives do not account for the X women who have
been sexually assaulted by DSK over decades. the macho culture allowed and condoned it, the women either cheered to it or fell into pathological silence for fear of getting social shunned, shamed, of losing of their income (survival again).

DSK's belated male initiation into forcelessness (falsely called powerlessness) and into weeping (to gain compassion) is taking place at age 62. he was humiliated in public (on the perp walk and by the media blitz), he was stripped of his (dominance) power position and ... [we'll see].
both Anne and Dominique adhere to a concept of rankism (seduction, abduction, deduction, and exploitation)
which is devoid of human dignity for men and women alike - as it is locked into the brace pride/shame, domination/subjugation.

And Maria Shriver, an achieved high standing woman, who organizes the world biggest women's conferences was duped for longer than a decade by her husband Arnold. she did not notice (really?) that her husband cheated on her in their house. he, the film star, was known for groping whereas she "stood by her men" on the election trail and told the voters "I should know that". she didn't want to know that (as part of the female programming). the awful truth will (her) set free (divorced). the programming says: you'll die without a man -- no matter how much money she has on the bank and how high her status is.

Robin Norwood, world bestseller author of "Women who love too much" told her readers before marriage # 3. now ladies, i found the 'real' prince. and soon after she discovered: he was worse and subtle than the wife-batteres and alcoholics before. her inner voice told her: leave him right now!
instead of admitting her still prolonged relationship addiction (marriage basked syndrome) ONCE MORE she wanted to die as a result of a surgery, rather slip out the back than facing huge public humiliation (failure). life wanted her to live. she went into a self-chosen reclusion of 7 years --- and recovered slowly.

i trust that a bigger portion of the western women in general and as a band of sisters will take the lead in sobering themselves from old old OLD programming that enables the bullying groping raping bosses.
Norwood, Lario, and Shriver seem (to me) to be better role models for outgrowing the inbuilt female programming than A. Sinclair. God help us all.

[Elfriede Ammann]

Donald Trump - a superrich man (seen as an alpha male) - told Esquire in 1991, "You know, it doesn't really matter what [the media] write as long as you've got a young and beautiful piece of [expletive]."

does Trump know that he is NOT in command? does the herd know it is in command?

the herd decides - in the simple majority (or else as 2/3rds majority) what is going to happen.
as long as the ideology is leaning to "a men's world" the majority chose: a bullying, raping, exploitative society.
Trump and fellow rankist dehumanizers in alpha positions may not have noted that the herd (as a majority) can outvote them --- once the critical mass within the herd is reached. then the tide tips within a matter of 4 minutes. in order to change a set mind frame it takes 11% of the community members who conceive and uphold the new directive. that will tip the majority and establish a new paradigm.

Trump's misogynist and rankist behavior will trump as long as the male envy and disdain for women as "less than" (as 2nd class citizens-ware) is prevalent -- as long as rankism flies under the herd's radar -- the herd, that truly makes the decision as to which (abusing alpha male/s) will fly (any longer). sexism and rankism are uncool.

Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher started an anti-trafficking campaign "Real men don't buy girls." that is a contribution to change the male self-image, to turn the tide.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/ashton-kutcher-and-demi-moores-new-a...
their campaign slogan cuts right into the meme of the old killer-protector male which says "real" men compete-demean other men and use women as an asset and does only indirectly purport the new male, the caring-nurturer-communicator.

Jim Wallis says to his sons (in regard to dehumanizing males):
"men who abuse women are not real men. They might still have money and power, but their abuse of women diminishes their humanity."
Wallis says to other men: "now it's time for other men to also say that this bad behavior is no longer acceptable. Other men must condemn these men, not only as immoral and sometimes criminal, but also as the worst examples of what and who we are supposed to be. These men have given their humanity over to their animal impulses."
"the abuse of women by men will no longer be tolerated. And the voices of men need to be louder to make that perfectly clear."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-wallis/zero-tolerance-trump-schw_...

why have men been so silent -- and why have women cheered to abusers? --- it's programming. very old survival programming.

condemning and punishing are also means taken from the old bag of tricks.
rankism cannot be redeemed by more rankism.
darkness cannot be driven out by darkness, only by light.
standing one's ground, calling a spade a spade, and consequently turning away from indignifying behavior will change the tide.
the animal propensities can be outshone by repeated consistent conscious humane choices that will eventually shape behavior -- once the tipping point is reached the majority will not favor dehumanizing behavior any longer.

[Elfriede Ammann]

in the name of equality and dignity

@Joel, you say in brackets: "(I think most men are at least a little envious of sports and rock and roll stars-of the male persuassion for their easy access to female genitalia)"

Jim Wallis says it outright in his article in Huff Post: "And sometimes, in all-male circles, there is a wink and a nod, and, most disgustingly, even a little envy of the powerful men who get to break all the rules when it comes to women. The primary outcry is from other women who, in the name of equality and dignity, lament this continual pattern of abuse."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-wallis/zero-tolerance-trump-schw_...

Joel, the alpha male fights hard and bloody every year to uphold his position for sexual preference choices. he is not in command otherwise.
biology (not ideology) is democratic and heterarchical. the "not so powerful male animals" can always outvote the alpha male by changing the meadow by group choice. and the alpha male will be baffled by a group decision which slipped his attention.

Biologists Roper and Conradt at the University of Essex in Cornwall, England made a study on group decision-making in animals: The alpha deer has only sexual preference choice. The herd makes a majority democratic decision where to graze next. Democracy is wired into the brains of creatures.

• We’ve always assumed that animals are hierarchical in their social structures: that there’s a lead animal who makes decisions for the group. Particularly in mammalian species, there is an alpha male, or in some cases – wolves, for example – an alpha female, and the assumption was that the alpha male or female had absolute control over the group’s actions, like a monarch. But it turns out that’s not true. Roper and Conradt found that if the herd stops chewing grass and heads to the watering hole, it’s not because the lead animal gave the command. Instead, when 51 percent of the animals start pointing toward the water hole, then the whole herd moves. This is how flocks of birds and schools of fish move, too. And the thresholds vary. When there are predators around, decisions require a super majority: two-thirds have to be pointing toward the water hole before they move. And this goes across the spectrum in biology, from insects to orangutans. By their actions, the members of the group all “vote,” if you will. Democracy is in our DNA. Jefferson was right.
  Video interview with Thom Hartmann (*1951) progressive political commentator, The Crisis of Western Culture, YouTube film, minute 7:13, 29:05 minutes duration, posted 30. July 2009

[angel macedon]

I will cry out about abuse to (AGAIN) women when women stop behaving like simple (especially white middle and upper class women) victims. The woman who would screw a man like Arnold ( and have his child, ignoring the potential for disaster and ruination) is no victim. Just because she is responding to her wiring is no excuse for her behaviuor. If we demand that men unequvicably control their baser animal instincts, why do women get a free pass? My bestfreind was repeatedly raped ( beginning at age twelve) and or abused by two teachers at St. Agnes School in the Haight, during the remergence ( this is the first time i've ever written or talked openly about this of the women's movement. The nun, Sister Mary Pauline, was summarily dispatched to a mission in Afirca ( i know because i saw the " love letters" she wrote him from there) and the third grade teacher, i forget her name, continued her abuse of him well into his high school years. Both of these women considered themselves feminists- leaning victims. Please don't offer excuses about these women being " sick" and thereby excuse their behaviour, something you would not do if they were men. I know that power is about the haves and have nots and has little to do with gender

[angel macedon]

So all this talk of equality and dignity rings false to me when you look at how women are all but ignoring domestic viopence, rape, and abuses of all kinds perpatrated by women. All i seem to ever hear from women like this is about the bad things that happen to them,  never about the bad things they cause or help to sustain like imperalism, colonalism, Jim Crow, the Slaves Codes and of course infidelity. Women what power just like men and will do anything to get and maintain power once acquired. Which is why women of this country have never truly challenged white males for control because they don't mind that this system exploits people so alpha females and males can have more; they only care if they are on the power side of the equation. This is a very white, presumptiously,  privileged conversation which could be greatly enhanced and broadened by some different perspectives.

[Elfriede Ammann]

Jim Wallis ends his article in Huff Post so: "We need to establish a new principle: that the abuse of women by men will no longer be tolerated. And the voices of men need to be louder to make that perfectly clear."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-wallis/zero-tolerance-trump-schw_...

@ angel macedon -- re: women as rapists -

National Crime Statistics, USA states: 99.8% of the people in prison convicted of rape are men.
http://de.spiritualwiki.org/Wiki/Gewalt#fnr1_41
10% of the rapes reported in Germany had woman involved, 90% men.
i did not get the details and background of the case you've described.

nuns - feminists - rapists - child abuse (it is a more bizarre constellation than with male clergy man).
all rapists -- no matter which gender or race are sick -- within multiaddictive societies.

re: "power is about the haves and have nots and has little to do with gender"
it's not "power" it is a force driven domination/subjugation system which is called "a men's world".
see John Lennon in non pc language:

- Woman is the "N" of the World http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5lMxWWK218

it's a men's world -- and the white old males in power positions will be the last ones to notice it when the tides have changed. they haven't changed yet. things are charging up.

re: "women of this country have never truly challenged white males for control"
neither have the French women, neither did the hotel maids world wide. remember it is part of the survival programming in town to cheer the biggest bully in town. now - after the DSK scandal - the French feminists and France in general rethink the condoned womanizer culture. and Anne Sinclair, the 3rd wife of DSK, exemplified the cheering of seduction. western societies are leaning towards perpetrators. courts are not issuing justice but sentences.  and still, change is on its way.