Women & Evil

[Joel Slater]

 In a great many low-tech societies (the kind that are sometimes assumed to be more like the way every culture was a long time ago) women are perceived as sources of potential pollution to adult males-and in some way the culture proscribes certain behaviors and sets up certain rituals to deal with the pollution.  Women are perceived to carry a threat in some way.  In the Bible and in early Greek religions-it was a female that brought evil into the world.  My question is 1)if in fact women are associated with evil more so than men then, 2) why is this the case.   So, If any one wants to discuss this further we can do this on this forum or by email.   

[LOUANN BRIZENDINE]

Joel, this is a great topic and SO relevant to many troubles in various cultures in the world today. Historically women in some cultures are seen to bewitch men so intensely that the very glimpse of her hair, or her skin can entice a man to behave badly, so women must cover themselves almost entirely. so Joel, i ask you as a man, does this happen to guys? Do men go into a man-trance at the sight of female beauty?

[Joel Slater]

I wrote a lot about this on my facebook page.  It is pretty informal as I have a lot of friends on fb.  Will share the several comments, and then try to think about your questions.

[LOUANN BRIZENDINE]

Take for example this week in Pakistan--"A male Pakistani lawmaker has drawn jeers for proposing a committee to stop the "mental torture" of men by women.

Jam Tamachi Unar suggested the idea Thursday, after the assembly in Sindh province resolved to create a panel to investigate the torture of women in the country's rural areas.

The proposal drew shouts of "Shame!" from female assembly members. Most of the women stormed out of the session, while some of the men laughed.

Unar told The Associated Press that he was only joking but that it's a "bitter truth that the same way women are tortured in rural areas, men are the victims of mental torture in urban neighborhoods.""

[Joel Slater]

  Below are a bunch of fb posts cobbled together about the idea of women and evil.

 

 

Of course the story most of us are familiar with is the Garden of Eden-where a woman was the cause for being expelled from paradise.

 

oops, did not mean to end there. The few Jewish theologians I have read who discuss this-do not discuss in any gendered way-but in genderless human situation way. It was knowledge that caused paradise to cease for us. Knowledge of good and evil. Other creatures do not have this knowledge-so basically it is the knowledge of values and ethics that makes it impossible for us to return to that state of nature. I think this is a profound insight, and would only add that knowledge of the past and future are also contributors to our expulsion. But interpreted this way it does not help with the gender issue.

about an hour ago · , I know the rest is pretty crazy. For Freud and Levi-Strauss (anthropologist)-humans moved from nature to culture through two basic behaviors: 1) the inhibition from simply hoarding as many females as possible-including close kin), and developing rules dealing with that situation. So, I am thinking rules and inhibitions. Do females present a threat to males in these regards. Do females present a threat to destroy culture (albeit patriarchal culture)?

 ·The "High Noon" reference is the threat woman present to rules of civilization, rules of honor, rules of what is good and evil. Grace tries to get Gary to reject all the rules that he accepts that makes him an ethical man. She asks him to forsake that for love. For love for her. I think there is an archetypal story where the woman tries to get the man to not go to war, or not to risk his life for reasons (maybe even stupid reasons) that are the reasons that provide meaning to his life. I think that is why John Wayne stayed away from women and hung out with men and horses. Women would ask the Duke to stop being the Duke and hence were temptresses. Exchange Sex for the rules that make for culture.  Last bit of craziness: The Camelot archetype. Woman threaten culture via asking men to break the rules, but they also threaten culture more directly by expressing their willingness to not follow the sexual repression demanded by culture. They have affairs and tempt men who have no right to their favors, and so become resposible for the threat of turning culture back to nature. The End

[LOUANN BRIZENDINE]

very interesting concept that you bring up: "...Do females present a threat to destroy culture?" Joel, do you think that men feel so humiliated if his woman rejects him and runs off with another that his rage becomes so great that he no longer can follow the rules of the civilized culture?

[Lenny Levin]

It's great timing that Jews in synagogues have just been reading the laws of purity and impurity (pollution, if you will) in Leviticus Chapters 12-15 in the annual Torah reading cycle.  Bottom line:  both men and women pollute through normal and abnormal sexual discharges, but the quarantine periods for women are longer.  One of the best introductions to the purity regulations of Leviticus is still Mary Douglas, "The Abominations of Leviticus," in her book Purity and Danger (1978, 2002).

[Joel Slater]

Does she try to explain these attitudes via psychology?

[Scott Storm Carter]

One interesting point is many men use 'male logic' to judge female 'emotional actions', then the men way over estimate the meaning of her action. Then they often go way overboard attempting to 'fix it'. This could have something to do with the 'mental torture' of men by women.

 

As far as the man-trance, it seems men often put so much value on an unusually beautiful woman, he will appear to be in a trance. As if his primitive brain stem believes this is the only woman appropriate for the creating of his offspring.

I am not saying these myths or beliefs are exclusively created by male actions. But men are likely creating them due to their lack of understanding of women.

[Joel Slater]

Regarding the question of rage and rule following-two thoughts occur to me. 1) Islamic cultures developed from in marrying clans (endogamous).  The reason for this seems to have been that the tribes there were in major competition and by marrying your fathers brothers son you kept wealth in the clan. This in turn is very conducive to the formation of very patriarchal societies in which the fathers determined who their daughters could marry.  Of course on the other side the sons did not have a lot choice either-but the woman after marriage was his. So, it seems to me the rage felt if his wife ran away was the rage of not following the God given rules that the culture depends upon to exist.  At the opposite end of the spectrum is romantic love-where both partners freely enter into a sexual/marriage relationship.  If she leaves I think the basis for the rage is cognitively different-namely a threat to ones personal concept of self.  Did she leave because I am not good enough for her sexually, economically, etc. and so in this case if he attacks her-it is he who is breaking the rules.  In both cases the man acts violently and justifies it as a case of rule following, or in the second case as emotionally justified rule breaking.

[LOUANN BRIZENDINE]

Is it the 'woman as sexual temptress' (as perceived by men, just by virtue of her natural sexual attributes) that makes her 'evil' and 'dangerous'?